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Aussie · 04-30-2008, 01:12 AM

Is there such thing as luck in Mixed Martial Arts?

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Good luck.

Synyster X · 05-10-2008, 07:50 PM

Is there such thing as luck in Mixed Martial Arts?
Yes

Now I know most people are thinking Luck is not a factor in MMA because usually whoever wins was because he was a better fighter and not bcz of luck. Well let’s think about things for a minute. Yes luck may not be a factor when it comes down too it in a fight, but Luck is definetely a factor in Mixed Martial Arts, And here’s why………

Well when it comes down too it in the octagon I agree that Yes luck is not a factor. But before that match happens is where Luck indeed takes place. Now before I begin let’s take a look at the definition of Luck.

Luck is a chance happening, or that which happens beyond a person's control. Luck can be good or bad.

Now based on that definition luck is what occurs beyond a persons control. Now in MMA there’s one thing that definition reminds me of and that’s the many injuries that happen in Mixed Martial Arts. Now injuries can definetely be a sad thing it stops the fighter with an injury dead in his tracks which in my opinion is bad luck. But there’s also that fighters replacement, say that certain fighter out with the injury had a title shot. Whoever replaces that fighter will now be getting that title shot. So the replacement got struck with good luck and is now getting a title shot. This happens often is the world of Mixed Martial arts and now I’ll give you some cases where injuries or other circumstances beyong a person’s control benefited greatly for that fighters replacement.

UFC 81: Well everyone knows the situation between Dana White & Randy Couture. Couture the UFC Heavyweight at that time wanted too fight former PRIDE Heavyweight Champion Fedor Emelianenko. So because Fedor signed with another company Randy refused too defend his title until he got what he wanted a fight with Fedor. So because of this Dana needed a Interim Heavyweight Champion until the situation with Randy gets resolved. So this is where luck comes in both Antonio Nogeuira Noguira & Tim Sylvia where too fight at UFC 81 for the Interim Heavyweight Championship. Nogueira eventually won the match and captued the Interim Heavyweight Championship. So with the Couture situation he got lucky too be in the match as from what I’ve seen it what supposed too be a rematch between Couture and Sylvia.

UFC 63: Now George St. Pierre coming fresh off a win against BJ Penn was going to get the next Welterweight Title shot against Matt Hughes. But a injury side tracked those title hopes so the guy he beat too get the title shot BJ Penn would get the shot instead being the number two contender. Now Penn did not win the fight but he was lucky enough too get a title shot as it was originally supposed too be GSP.

UFC 79: What was original supposed too be a blockbuster main event between Matt Serra and Matt Hughes for the Welterweight Champhionship was changed due to injury to Matt serra. George St. Pierre was slotted as the replacement for Matt Serra. He would know face Matt Hughes for the Interim Welterweight Championship. The winner of this match would also go on to face Serra for the Welterweight Title at UFC 83. George St. Pierre would go on too defeat Hughes in impressive fashion at UFC 79. He would then defeat Serra for the title belt at 83. So due too Matt serra’s injury George st. Pierre got the oppurtunity to fight for The interim Welterteight Champion and then the UFC Welterwweight Championship. But Matt Hughes was struck with Bad Luck as he lost too George St. Pierre when he could of beaten Serra and claim the Welterweight Title.

So as you can see these are three events out of many that where affected by Luck. So in closing you can see clearly see Luck is indeed a focus in the Mixed Martial Arts Organization. Fighting may be revolved around skill, but what happens before the fight injurie and contracts wise is totally up too luck. So this is my debate I wish luck to both Nickster. & RYAN with there debates, Good Evening Everyone.

Diesel · 05-10-2008, 09:28 PM

Nice.

Synyster X · 05-11-2008, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel

Nice.

Koscheck · 05-14-2008, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Yes, there is such a thing as luck in Mixed Martial Arts.

When you're fighting in a sport such as MMA, of course there is luck. It takes a spilt second for you to lose or win a fight. You can be dominating a fight and suddenly your opponent throws a un-guided punch and you're before you know it, you're knocked unconscious losing the fight purely by luck.

Luck isn't just in the fights though. Alot of decision wins (ohey Hamill/Bisping) are won by spilt decision. The fighter who lost on the night may have won the fight in everyone else’s mind. Everyone’s that is except for judges 1 and 2. This is just luck that the judges sore the fight in your favour and not your opponents in this situation.

I'll use the below MMA fight to prove how quickly you can receive a bad call or a poor stoppage leading to a lucky win or saving them from defeat.

UFC 81 - Brock Lesnar v Frank Mir.

There is a possibility Mir could have escaped the barrage of punches Lesnar was throwing at Mir. However, in saying that, I'm not so sure it would have happened. When Frank Mir moved his head and Lesnar hit Mir in the back of the head, referee Steve Mazzagatti stopped the fight. In alot of peoples opinion's he stopped it moments before Lesnar would have won the fight via TKO or KO. The fight is stood back up. Lesnar knocks Mir back down. Mounts and is back to assaulting Mir with punches. He makes a mistake and Mir catches him winning via submission. Now, this was luck. I'm not saying that Lesnar was going to win the fight before the fight was stood up but it certainly helped Mir a whole lot and he luckily pulled out the win. It's just the way MMA goes sometimes.

Luck doesn't just belong in the octagon though. If you take a look at the GSP/Serra/Hughes situation you will see how one fighter can become champion on another persons bad luck and your good luck. Serra beats GSP. Hughes/Serra is pencilled in for the Welterweight championship. Suddenly Serra hurts his back (I think) and St. Pierre is thrust into the title fight against Hughes. He takes advantage of his luck and wins the interim title. He then goes onto beat Serra and you all know the rest.

You know, injury wise there is luck. Any fighter who walks out of the octagon is considered lucky. When you actually take a look at the sport, even if you don't walk out, you should still be considered lucky your even coming out.

So, in closing, yes there is luck in MMA.

Didn't have alot of time to work on this. School is being a whore, atm.

Good luck, fella's.

RYAN · 05-14-2008, 03:02 AM

Is there such thing as luck in Mixed Martial Arts?
No

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Inside The Octagon

These dictionary meanings are really important to this debate and it is very important that you know the difference between luck and an upset.

Quote:

Luck - the combination of circumstances, events, etc., operating by chance to bring good or ill to a person:
"She's had nothing but bad luck all year."

Upset - Used for an unexpected defeat of an individual/team favored to win:
“The Hawks upset victory over the Boston Celtics”

So in other words luck is something that happens by chance and you are not depending on luck. When people interpret luck in MMA it can be for a fighter getting a knock out punch or sometimes it can be when a big underdog wins in a quick fight. A prime example of people interpreting luck in MMA is when Quinton ‘Rampage’ Jackson beat (at the time) UFC Light Heavyweight champion, Chuck ‘The Iceman’ Liddell. The fight started of with a lot of back peddling and few if any exchanges. Finally when they did exchange blows, Rampage caught Liddell on the button and knocked him out in 1:53. Chuck Liddell thought he was going for a body shot so defended that, but Rampage threw a glancing head shot and knocked him out.

With a well versatile fighter like Rampage, Liddell has to be ready for all different attacks that Rampage can do. Kicks, knees and punches to the head, body or legs can be used by a fighter inside the octagon. Also the fighter can also clinch up with his opponent and try to take them down, when it goes to the ground it is the same with many different attacks. Another great example of people using the world ‘luck’ with MMA is when Matt Serra shocked the world and made one of the biggest upsets in MMA history beating George St. Pierre. After the win, Serra had this to say

“It is crazy! Last year may have been an upset but, believe me, it was no fluke. What is a ‘lucky punch?’ Who do these people think I was trying to punch in the face if not Georges? Seriously – where did the luck come into it? I got him hurt and didn’t let him off the hook. Seriously, you tell me, if you aim at something, and then hit it time and time again, was it luck or did you just do what you were trying to do?"

When people say that the fighter was able to get a lucky punch or lucky submission they are totally ludicrous and probably don’t follow MMA much. By that theory any fight that doesn’t go to the judges hands is considered a lucky hit or submission by the winner. Totally wrong as MMA is very similar to chess and there is no such thing as luck or fluke. When fighters come in with a clear game plan are able to use the different weapons they have in the octagon to win, then they are the better fighter, luck is usually a cop out for the big favorite losing.

When I hear luck being associated when fighters get more improved skills in a certain area is laughable. Like Travis Lutter, Lutter has 7 out of his 9 wins from submissions and is a black belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. His aim is usually to get the fight to the ground and use his strengths, he has one win via KO is his MMA career and people say that win is a fluke. UFC 50 he fought Marvin Eastmen and connected with a beautiful overhand right wish left Eastmen knocked out. Just because fighters are known for their excellent ground game doesn’t mean when they hit a clean strike and knock the opponent out, it is a fluke.

Outside The Octagon

When a fighter suffers an injury and someone has to take there spot, is that considered lucky for the replacement. I don’t think so. When fighters are called in as replacement, very rarely have they not been training hard for the last few months (Wes Sims is the only exception to that I can think of). The main talking point which involves replacements and the word ‘luck’ is when title fights are held. When the title holder cannot defend the title (for whatever reason) and someone gets an interim title, people somehow call that luck

People have said that George St. Pierre was ‘lucky’ that Matt Serra got injured before UFC 79 as it was supposed to be Matt Serra vs. Matt Hughes. Is there any luck or bad luck there? No again, in my opinion.

George St. Pierre had been training hard thinking that one of the fighters could have got injured. St. Pierre fighting for the interim title didn’t mean a whole lot to him as after he won, he admitted that the UFC Welterweight Title which Matt Serra held was the title he was really looking to get. I don’t think any bad luck occurred to Matt Hughes as even before the fight he said that he only took the fight with George St. Pierre because he thought he had a good chance of winning. Then lastly Matt Serra who held onto the welterweight title longer then he could have, as he could have been beaten by Matt Hughes at UFC 79. Because of that injury he held onto the title for 4 extra months resulting in just over a year reign as champion.

There are also a few other examples that deserve mentions. UFC 81 when Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira faced of against Tim Sylvia, people called both fighters lucky because Randy Couture (the title holder) didn’t want to defend the belt. Nogueira was a former PRIDE champion with a record of 30-4 going into the fight and Sylvia was a former UFC champion and had a record of 24-3 and they were lucky to get title shots? – are you kidding me? – Next example comes from UFC 80 when Sherk (the title holder) was banned for having a banned substance in his body. BJ Penn faced Joe Stevenson for the Lightweight title because Sherk was unable to get in the octagon. Penn is a former lightweight champion, both have massive fan supports and together have a record of 11-5 inside the octagon against top competitors. I don’t see how that is lucky for them as they would have been given a title shot down the road anyway.

To end this debate, I would like to tell everybody that luck is used in the UFC, only as a slang word. I believe inside the octagon when throwing punishing blows or submitting the opponent, none of that is luck. Same with outside the octagon, if someone gets injured and two top contenders face in an interim title fight, I don’t see how that can be luck either. At least one of the competitors was going to fight the championship anyway.

The 'Jake' · 05-16-2008, 03:39 PM

Synyster X · 05-17-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Complex

hai no spamming.

MoveMent · 05-17-2008, 12:38 PM